In our Season 4 Finale episode, Carmen and Jordan Campagnaro meet with Robert Kiyosaki, investor, entrepreneur, educator and author of the #1 best selling personal finance books of all time, Rich Dad Poor Dad. Kiyosaki has challenged and changed the way tens of millions of people around the world think about money and is arguably one of the most influential authors worldwide when it comes to investing and pursuing financial independence.
Robert Kiyosaki has been a long time inspiration and mentor for Carmen. We were very excited to have him join us to talk about his perspective when it comes to the market, investing, real estate, and constantly getting smarter. He shares that there is no risk-free investment, and constantly educating oneself is the best remedy to decreasing risk when investing. This episode offers an informative and fresh take on achieving success for novice and experienced investors alike.
Read the Full Episode Below
Getting Smarter with America’s Rich Dad, Robert Kiyosaki S4 E16
(Note: This transcript has been modified for clarity purposes)
Carmen: Hi, I’m Carmen, this is Jordan. Welcome to 30 Minutes to Wealth.
Jordan: The show that teaches you how to build wealth through real estate. Today we are very excited to welcome a very special guest who has a best-selling book that is arguably one of the most influential and important real estate books worldwide.
Carmen: I love this person, he’s been my icon for many many years. Robert Kiyosaki is going to be on our show today to provide his insight in real estate. You need to see this, don’t go away, we’ll be right back.
Jordan: Hi, I am Jordan and this is Carmen. Welcome back to 30 Minutes to Wealth. Today we are welcoming a very special guest, Robert Kiyosaki, on the show. Robert, thank you so much for being here today.
Carmen: Thank you
Robert: Oh thank you, it’s nice, I’ve never spoke to a mother-daughter team before, it’s kind of interesting
Jordan: I love it.
Carmen: Jordan was born and raised in the real estate world.
Jordan: It’s true.
Carmen: And I am thrilled to have you here personally because you’re a great inspiration to me. You don’t know it but I went to an event in New York City and you were there with Donald Trump. I don’t know how many years ago that was about 15 years ago I think.
Robert: Yeah, the Javits Center.
Carmen: Yes and I met you there, we took pictures together, you probably had a million people there but-and you really inspired me with your story about you know all these courses and people going to these investment training companies and complaining and being negative about it and your spin on it was don’t think about the negatives just-it gave you that kick in the butt to do something and make it happen. That was a really awesome day for me and I read your book and you signed many of them so that was really great. And from there on in, I mean I’ve been investing since I was 18 in real estate and I absolutely love it. But how did you get started, how did all of this come to be?
Robert: Uh, the story of “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” is a true story. You know my poor dad has a PhD from Stanford and Northwestern University of Chicago and PhD stands for ‘Poor, Helpless, and Desperate’ and we learn nothing about money at school. So I was about 10 years old, growing up in Hawaii, I kept asking my teacher: when do we learn about money? And my teacher was a church lady like on Saturday Night Live “The love of money is the road of all evil”
Carmen and Jordan: (Laughter)
Robert: I am 10 years old and I am going…maybe evil to you lady but I want some money and that’s how it kind of started. So that’s when I went to find my rich dad. My rich dad was my best friend’s father in this little town called Hilo, Hawaii. This town is the most southern in the United States, further south than Miami. And so, we’re in a little hick town and that is when I went to see my rich dad and I said I want to learn about money and the way he taught us was by playing monopoly and so we all know about formulas for greenhouses red hotel. So today, I own a massive-I have about eight thousand rental units and several hotels, I’m in commercial real estate, I have businesses but I’m basically a capitalist
Robert: And I don’t trust my government, I don’t trust the Fed, but I did fight for America. I’m a US marine, I was a pilot, but I fought in Vietnam twice. I do fight for freedoms. I don’t care if you’re a communist or a Marxist or a capitalist just leave me alone let me have my freedom. Don’t take my money.
Carmen: Here, here.
Robert: What do I know about money? It’s the reason I’m in real estate. It’s because I use debt and don’t pay taxes. Legally. And if you’re paying taxes that means you have bad tax advice.
Carmen: Yes, yes, I got it. Wow, well, okay so we understand and we’re on the same page with you there. Now, what investments do you think our guests…our viewers should get into from a real estate perspective in uncertain times? What if something God forbid happens or if there is a recession, what type of real estate do you think would be-
Jordan: Something that can stand through-
Carmen: Weathering the storm?
Robert: Well, the number one investment is your financial education. You know, because if you’re stupid, you’re going to lose your money. I don’t care what you invest your money in. So, when I talk to a poor person, I don’t care if they have a PhD. When I came back from Vietnam in 73 the first thing I started doing was taking–I mean I hated school, but I liked learning about money so in 73 I started taking real estate courses, I took stock courses, I basically immersed myself in what’s called “financial education” but people think I’m a real estate guy. I’m not. I have over a billion dollars in debt in real estate. If you can understand that you can understand that I’m really an investor in debt and the more debt I have, I pay no taxes.
Robert: So, the reason I was in Toronto with the Toronto Stock exchange is because I learned more about the stock market by taking three companies public. I took a Chinese company public and we struck gold and then I took a company from Argentina public, and I still have it, it’s making me millions and millions and millions of dollars. And then I took an oil company public out of Portugal and people said there is no oil in Portugal and I found out the hard way that there is no oil in Portugal. But that is how I learned, I learned by doing. The reason most people are not successful is they went to stupid school. They tell you don’t make mistakes. How in the world do you learn if you don’t make mistakes? How do you learn to walk if you don’t fall down? So everybody said they want the guarantee, they want the low risk and all that. I said you’re an idiot, you went to school. Don’t go to school, take real estate courses, take stock courses, take investment courses, hang out with rich people, don’t hang out with poor people who are highly educated. It’s really common sense when you think about it. My friends are all multi-millionaires. My best friend just sold his business for two billion dollars.
Robert: He never went to school.
Carmen: Well and I will say, I totally get it but the majority of the people out there, they’re trained as you said to, you know, pay down their mortgage, invest risk-free.
Robert: But how do you do that, that is the biggest load of crap I’ve ever heard. Even if you buy gold, the price of gold goes up and down. So if you bought gold at let’s say 2,500 an ounce, today it’s about 1,700 an ounce, you lost money.
Robert: There is no such thing as risk-free and all I’m saying, I said to you, I hated school but I never stopped studying and when markets crash, I am not kidding, as I am watching today, I don’t even know what today’s date is even, but I am so excited because it’s crashing, that means all of this bubble, the air is coming out of the bubble and now I’m going to get rich because all of the stuff that is crashing goes on sale. Just like Niemen Mark saying hey we have a 50% off in our shoe department and I know you two would be there.
Jordan: We sure would.
Robert: If Niemen Mark said guess what our shoe, we’re going to raise the price 100%, I’ll say no I’ll just wait but what happens is, idiots, when Niemen Mark raises their shoe prices by 100%, they’ll rush to buy some. Can you be that stupid? Yes, people are. It’s called FOMO – fear of missing out.
Robert: Okay so there is no such thing as risk-free and the thing is the best way to get rich is don’t do what idiots do and that’s why I’m constantly studying.
Carmen: Now, what are you studying?
Robert: Markets. You know this guy Dave Ramsey in America, he says live debt-free. Are you nuts? You know Suzy Orman says cut up your credit cards. Are you nuts? How do you live without a credit card? You don’t understand what is called a monetary system, but I study, I understand the financial markets. That’s why I was in the Toronto Stock Exchange figuring it out. I said how are you guys ripping everybody off, how does a stock exchange rip everybody off and once I found out I said okay now I know how to play the game. You know Warren Buffet said best, if you’re in a poker game and you’ve been there for 20 minutes and you don’t know who the sucker is you’re the sucker.
Carmen: Robert, hold that thought. Awesome, interesting topic. We’ve got to go to break, we’ll be right back, don’t go anywhere.
Jordan: Hi I’m Jordan and this is Carmen, welcome back to 30 Mins to Wealth. We’re so grateful to have Robert Kiyosaki on the show today and Robert you’ve been sharing some really interesting stuff with us today. Picking back up, I know you’ve invested all over the world and we love to hear your thoughts on Canada and the Canadian market.
Robert: The biggest deal of my lifetime was what I just did on TSE. It’s in the green new deal. Toronto and Canada, you have some fantastically smart people, but your system is socialist. I’m a capitalist, I am not a Marxist, I’m not a socialist like most Canadians are. Okay. I am a capitalist, that’s why I hang out at VSE and TSE. That’s why I know Toronto so well. Okay so, understand I’m just shifting your attitude towards it if you’re looking for risk-free, it means you don’t know what you’re doing. That means I’m just going to sit here and take your money one day with something. I’m not going to steal it from you, you’re going to donate it to the market and that’s my message to people. So, you know YouTube has more programs as real estate courses, the stock course, and all that. I take them and I wouldn’t be living in fantasia, you know Walt Disney’s Fantasia. What if it talks about “ah we’re gonna get we’re gonna buy 100 million bitcoins and we’ll live happily ever after. Well, bitcoins are crashing today too.
Carmen: Oh, so time to buy bitcoin? (Laughter)
Robert: But that’s what people are waiting for is me to give them a tip, okay so if you understand that so I’m encouraging all of you to listen to – your listeners to listen to your program, get educated, get smart but eliminate the words I want risk-free. There is no such thing and crashes are really really good times to get rich so I’m very excited, I’m happy. You know, unfortunately there are millions of guys, old guys like me, I am a baby boomer, I am 74 years old. Well, they’re wiped out. They are, you know what, you guys have RRSP, we have 401k. Yeah. You know they’re gonna get wiped out. But the reason I was on TRC Toronto Stock Exchange is I wanted to find out how people in the stock market rip people off and the same as in real estate. There are always crooks everywhere, you guys know that. So, if you actually can sit there and believe that risk-free, we can, we’re going to sing Kumbaya, that’s what I’m after is that attitude. Please understand, there is no such thing as risk-free. So, if I can leave you with that, the more you study, your chances of success go up, your risk goes down but there is no such thing as an investment that is risk-free.
Carmen: Well, that’s uh, thank you for those words of wisdom.
Robert: You’re looking at my chair in the ESP and the I.
Robert: Okay, I can’t believe you haven’t read that book because that’s the most important book.
Carmen: I have read that book. I just want our viewers to know what this is.
Robert: The I is insider – I only invest from the insight. If you buy stocks, the RRSPs or whatever those things are, you’re outside and so my rich dad taught me: you’re either inside or you’re outside and one of my objectives was how do I get inside? How do I become an insider on the deal? Now, the one reason real estate is good is technically the moment I started with a little one-bedroom one-bath condo on the island of Maui, you know it’s a pretty nice island, I had the challenge: could I buy for no money? So this is back in 1973. So I put no money down, I bought this little one bedroom, one bath condo. I made 25 a month cash flow – that was called an infinite return because all I had in it was my brain power. So, I was making $25 a month with no money, that’s called infinite. I have tremendous respect for Canadians, you know why? Because you’re a smaller country and all that, you’re resource driven and all this, but I’ve met some of the smartest brightest people there because it is harder either inside or you’re outside so if you buy an RRSP you’re outside, I want to be on the inside. I want to be putting the deal together but that takes years and years of struggle, practice, and study. But my first deal was only 18,000 on Maui and I bought it with a credit card and so every time I hear these people say cut up your credit cards, are you crazy? That’s how stupid they are. A credit card isn’t a problem, it’s the idiot holding the credit card.
Carmen and Jordan: (Laughter)
Carmen: Oh my gosh, what an awesome perspective, I love it. It’s fresh and invigorating.
Robert: Let me tell you, so I want everybody to listen to your program. You know what I mean? Because whether they agree or disagree with you…you could have good people and bad people on, but the most important piece of real estate…it’s six inches between your left ear and your right ear and that’s what you always want to be plowing, to be fertilizing, to be churning. You know that good ideas, bad ideas, I’m always on people because it’s between your left ear and your right ear that you’re rich or not rich. That’s all, just take control of that, control your thoughts.
Jordan: So, you would say for those that maybe just want to get started into real estate just to educate themselves as much as possible and just get as much information as they can so that they’re empowered to start this endeavour?
Robert: I would say I’m on YouTube probably eight hours a day listening to different points of view.
Robert: I am, yeah. I don’t necessarily disagree, I just keep an open mind, you know, I go…okay so Dave Ramsey or Suzy Orman, they say cut up your credit cards and I’m going, are you nuts? But I listen to what they have to say and I go, right. It’s if you cannot control your spending, cut up your credit cards and that’s good advice. If you just want-you don’t want to study, then an RRSP is perfect for you.
Carmen: That’s inspiring, it’s very interesting.
Carmen: Your perspective, it’s different.
Robert: And it doesn’t mean I haven’t lost money, I’ve lost money from partners who are dishonest, I trusted them. So, start small and all that. What you’re looking for is a team. One of the problems I have with school is they tell you if you cooperate during test time, that’s called cheating. Well capitalists cheat all day long, I have the best accountants, attorneys, real estate guys, mortgage brokers, I am the most stupid guy on my team. I only hang out with smart honest people, but it takes a while to find them, you know? And so that’s what you’re searching for – is your team. You want the best accountant, the best attorney, the best real estate brokers, uh best mortgage brokers.
Carmen: Well, thank you Robert for all your wisdom. Jeez, I wish I could, uh, hang out with you more often because you’re the smart rich honest guy and I’d love to learn more.
Jordan: Um, very fascinating.
Robert: That is the attitude. If people could take that away with them, like last night I had dinner with about 8 people and all we talked about was the rate on the market and reverse repo but for people who are interested in markets you’ve really got to know how the mechanisms work inside.
Carmen: It’s a whole different level of business
Robert: And so that’s why what you’re saying is the smarter you are the-its you’re opportunities go up but so does the risk goes up, which only once you have to be smarter – just want to be smarter and that’s why constant studying, take courses, you know take the options course in stocks, you know take real estate investment course, take finance courses. What most people do, a mistake they make, is that they get a real estate license. Well, a real estate license kind of handicaps you. So, I don’t have a license, which means I can do better inside deals.
Carmen: So, I know you have written many books and I think the “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” book and Cashflow Quadrant were really good and I think I would recommend that for anybody to read so maybe you can tell a little bit about the book and then we can have our viewers reach out to get some of these books, that would be awesome.
Robert: Well again, yes, your most important asset is bringing your left ear and your right ear and the thing is this is the hard part, what they found out is if you’re raised in a poor family, you have it harder. So that’s why, I hate to say this, my poor dad, even though he had a PhD, he was a poor man. Good man, but he was poor. He always says I can’t afford it, I can’t do this. What do you think, I am made of money? And that’s where it starts, and then my rich dad always said never say I can’t afford it because that’s what poor people do. And I hear people saying I can’t afford it, I can’t do that and all that. Can’t is a four-letter word so use it carefully. Use it very very carefully because you know, I’m not religious either but as the bible says and the word became flesh and dwelt amongst us. So poor people make themselves poor with their mouths. I can’t afford that, you think I am made of money, oh the rich are crooked, the rich are evil. You know? Why does the government do something about it? You know they should just give me more money. Those are the wars of a poor person, that’s why they’re poor and the word risk, you see, the higher the risk, the smarter you gotta be. That’s all it means to me. So when I was getting ready to go to Vietnam, I started flight school in Florida and they shipped me to Camp Pendleton, California. And in Camp Pendleton, they put the guns on me. I realized, oh my god this is getting real and then I wind up in Vietnam as a carrier pilot and they start shooting at you. And all that meant let’s get smarter, get better.
Carmen: Well thank you so much
Jordan: Thank you Robert for coming on and sharing some of your wisdom with us, it’s very refreshing.
Carmen: And insightful.
Robert: And I’m very very sincere, I do more deals in Canada because you have some of the smartest people I’ve ever met there.
Robert: There ain’t that many of them…gotta track them down.
Carmen: Yeah, track them that’s right, hang out with the smart people.
Robert: You gotta find it, that’s the hard part. It’s like how do you marry the man or woman of your dreams? Well, you kiss a lot of frogs until you find the fairy princess or the fairy you know. I am just leaving with a closing line and it comes from Jack Nicholson, he played Colonel Jessup in a few bends starring Tom Cruise and all that and this is, you want the truth, you can’t handle the truth, and what you’re looking for is the truth but you gotta be able to handle it
Carmen: Yes, that’s right.
Robert: So thank you so much for what you’re doing!
Carmen: Well, thank you for doing what you’re doing, this is an inspiration to me and everything you’ve said has really resonated with me and it’s put me, my thoughts, in a different place for sure.
Jordan: For sure, yeah.
Robert: It’s nice to speak to a mother-daughter team getting smarter, a very important role to have influencing women as well as men on getting smarter.
Carmen: Yes, I like that.
Robert: The higher the risk, the smarter you’ve gotta get.
Jordan: I love that.
Robert: So is the return.
Carmen: Ohhh that’s awesome. Thank you so much.
Robert: Thank you guys.
Jordan: Thank you.
Carmen: Have a great day.
Jordan: If you’re interested in learning more about real estate investing, you can go to 30MinutestoWealth.com to see the rest of our episodes.
Carmen: That’s it. Our 30 minutes are up. Go create wealth.